Native Drums
Explore the powerful symbolism of drums in African American culture, once tools of communication and resistance during the darkest times of slavery. We confront the lingering shadows of economic exploitation and the pervasive influence of media and religion in controlling black narratives. Let’s reexamine the role of the black church and its mission to fight systemic injustices, urging a return to prophetic ministries that prioritize humanity and community over material wealth. This podcast episode is not just a reflection of the past but a call to action for the future, urging us to build a more just and liberated world.
Native Drums
Inside The Education Oversight Machine: Scores, Standards, And Spending
Education isn’t a scoreboard—it’s a future. Representative Terry Alexander joins us to open the black box of South Carolina’s Education Oversight Committee, explain how standards get set, and question whether rising rankings reflect real learning or just better spin. We talk plainly about what data can and can’t tell us, where budgets actually land, and why too many graduates still need remedial classes even as spending climbs.
From the difference between standards and curriculum to the messy politics of federal shakeups and states’ rights, we follow the threads that tie policy to classrooms. The voucher debate takes center stage: who truly benefits when public dollars follow a student to private schools, and who gets left out when families must cover the gap? Terry offers a grounded view on equity, access, and accountability—across teachers, administrators, the state, and parents—showing how any weak link undermines the whole.
We also look forward. Community-led charter schools, especially those anchored by Black churches and local partners, emerge as a powerful model to pair high standards with relevant, culturally rooted learning. We spotlight Florence’s visible progress—new facilities, stronger performance—and talk about how resources, libraries, and civic will can turn buildings into real opportunity. If we want students ready for a global, digital world, we need to fund classrooms first, teach for mastery over metrics, and build schools that fit our kids.
If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review to help more listeners find us. What’s the one change you’d make to your local schools today?
Well, hello everyone. This is Joselia, and welcome to Native Drums sitting in for the Reverend Dr. Ralph W. Canty Sr. It's our pleasure to have today here with us Representative Terry Alexander. He's uh representative of House Seat 59.
SPEAKER_02:Yay. Welcome to Native Drums. Thank you. Thank you for this invite. I'm excited about it.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes, yes, I'm excited about it too, because there's a committee that you serve on uh at the State House, and I don't know if many people know it, but you serve on the Oversight Committee for our education, South Carolina Education. Right. And um that's great to know. It's really great to know that you're that you're there for us.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And um now there is a subcommittee that you are serving on as well. But first, let's talk about this, the oversight committee itself. What is the purpose?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, the Education Oversight Committee. I think I think um I am like the ranking member, meaning that I I am the senior member on that committee. And and what the Education Oversight Committee does is like we look at the data that comes in from the various schools, the test grades, and we kind of analyze it and give them some type of continuity in terms of what they need to be doing in each individual school. We take we take out all the test scores that kind of come through us and we analyze them. Not we, the staff that analyze them, and and we take a look, and then that's how we somehow come up and produce these um school grades.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um district grades and so on and so forth. That is one of our purposes. This is to oversee the whole educational component from um K through 12, basically. And in some instances beyond post-education.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay, okay, that's good to know. That's a a a big job. Oh my goodness. So then when it comes to the subcommittee, because it's about academic standards and assessments.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right, right. Um, okay. That's one committee. And then I'm on the the State House Education Committee where I'm uh vice chairman, and within that, not well, within that whole piece, I serve on the standard and the academics committee, and we kind of look at the standards from across the state. Let me back up.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That's that's all on the Education Oversight Committee. But we kind of set the standards, we look at the standards, and we determine whether or not the standards are fitting based on what we are what we are kind of putting in place there basically. And not just us as a committee, but committees from across the state. We don't do it. We get information and data from various committees who who be a part of this standard thing.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yeah. Right, and then they come together and put all that together. Right, right, right. Okay. Oh, all right. So um, say for instance, if a standard, if the I know that the the teachers have to go by these certain standards for that particular grade level, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. So that's what you all there's standards and then there's curriculum. Right. Standards is here. Curriculum is in here. As long as your curriculum, as long as the courses that you're teaching meet the standards, then you're cool with that. And that's what we kind of look at and see.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, all right, okay. So then, look, with all of these changes that are going on um in the department of education, the national department of education, so what responsibility will rest on the state level education department?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I've been talking to my colleagues, you know, at the state level, and right now we really don't know because we don't know what the department uh, you know, this separation, this cutting apart or tearing apart the department of education. We don't know what that looks like. And I don't think even those in Washington know what it looks like. They know what they want. Uh but it don't, you know, these um separating of the Department of Education into various entities, we don't know because the Senate and the House somehow have to prove that. So I don't know what that's gonna look like, Joe. I think, in my mind's eye, I think that they're trying to get it back to states' rights. That means that each state do what in the world they want to do. And uh and that's not good for us. Because if we are not at the table happening to decide and make decisions, then that's not gonna be for us, basically. So I don't know what what Trump is doing here is gonna have an impact here because no one knows exactly what that looks like.
SPEAKER_04:What it's gonna look like. Yeah. Okay, I'll tell you, I'll tell you. So there's some other changes going on, which you fellas say you don't know what it looks like.
SPEAKER_02:But that's my that's my new word.
SPEAKER_04:Hey. If you don't know, you don't know. Especially in this day and age. But um with the different, how can I say it, degrading the degrees of individuals or professionals. Um, there's this list that came out recently in reference to that. So what's your take on that? Um, because I saw on there that the if you had a master's of engineering, that was gonna be too like, what? A master's of engineering, you're gonna. What is all that about?
SPEAKER_02:I hate to say it. But you know, Joe, what you know, with this whole educational thing that Trump is doing and how he and his boys trying to minimize it, and it in my mind's eye, they're trying to create an environment of class. Of class of people. You know, if you got it, you got it. If you don't, you don't. And and if we look at our history, we'll find out that our history was about class.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Either you were born into it or you worked hard enough to get it. And I think that's where we are going. If you got it, it doesn't matter what kind of degree you have. It doesn't matter what what breed you come from, if you got it, you got it. And um it's kind of devastating, but but one thing about I find out about politics that it changed every four years. So yeah. And uh I I don't know. I I really wish I could say how this whole process is gonna work out. Particularly when I listen to what uh the president said today about Somalia, the type of people that they were, that they're no good, they're crooked, they're criminals. Well, we don't know what might come out tomorrow relative to our being, basically.
SPEAKER_03:I I don't know, because our president said anything.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes, so so it's uh a world filled with uncertainties.
SPEAKER_02:And we have to figure out how to manage it.
SPEAKER_04:And where we fit in.
SPEAKER_02:And where we fit in, and we find our place and we move it forward.
SPEAKER_04:There you go.
SPEAKER_02:Just like those who came before. That's right. Remember, they had to count bubbles in soap.
SPEAKER_04:Oh what? That's a new one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they had to count but uh made the jelly beans in a jar. That's what those of us who came before us had to deal with. And they moved it forward. And here we are. We got to figure out how to move this thing forward too. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's definitely within us. It's in us, it's in our spirits, in our souls.
SPEAKER_02:It has to be. Uh-huh. For us to have endured what we are, and you and I right now are podcasting all over the place. We have to be special in some type of way. You know. Look at us.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:East Florence.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we go and, as they say, W W W worldwide. Something special about us.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Keep waking up.
SPEAKER_04:Well, let's back up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. No, no, no. This is good. This is good. Um, let's back up to the ranking of our education in South Carolina. Okay. Now, um, we've been in the past. South Carolina, of course.
SPEAKER_02:Come on, come on, Florida.
SPEAKER_04:South Carolina, uh, South Carolina, the state um as opposed to the nation.
SPEAKER_02:Gots, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. Um, the numbers have gone up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I have, let me say the date. I am, I was at a conference um in New Orleans, right? And uh this later came on and presented about data. I don't mess with data, because data jive. People have data do and say what they want data to do to say. And so this lady got up there and said, um, well, you know, I take your data and I take your bad data and I do this, I do that. I said, madam, then it's no longer my data. So they take data and move it to where they want it to be. And um, and I look at bottom line as a look, just here, at the beginning of the year, they say 25% of the students ain't gonna make it. At the beginning of the year, at least 25%, because they have to have down, they have to have a starting point.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:They had to have a start. So automatically they're cutting us off. So to me, any other stuff don't make no sense. You see, because they 25%. So 75%, I don't got 75%, then those of us who're gonna survive, gonna survive. And that's not good data to me. Uh we can make numbers look whatever way we want numbers to look. Yeah. And uh when this COVID thing came, they'd say that that the numbers was this and that because they didn't take the numbers per se. Listen, education is gonna be the next abortion bill. They got the people, they got money, don't mess with their children, don't mess their dollars, and that's education. And they're coming to get us. We don't get our help ourselves. I could go on and on and on about how our old educational system and the impact that it have on us. And we haven't been good stewards of the education that God has given them to us. Uh they're coming at us. And if you can't read and write, you ain't got that. It may not be my lifetime or your lifetime, but they're coming to take that away for us. I don't know. I don't know. But that data, that data they got where we rank it now. One time we used to be number at the bottom, and then we went up, and then Mississippi went up, then we went up. And then after a while, our numbers began to shift. And that's a that's a whole nother conversation.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because I I I did take a look at um West Virginia is at the bottom.
SPEAKER_02:Right, that's a whole you know how how you how you make numbers work for you. How you make numbers do what you want numbers to do.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because they moved us up about 10 points.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, easy, easy, easy. And because based on what how what we presented.
SPEAKER_03:Right. What we presented.
SPEAKER_02:And uh we got kids in this state graduating still can't read and write. Graduating this year cannot read nor write. And then we have college students going to college that uh after they get into college, they have to take remedial math courses, scholarship students.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So when you look at this whole system, it's it's really giant. That's that's a that's a that a three-day conversation home, girl.
SPEAKER_04:So what attributes to that? Um the of them not, is it a teacher thing, the impact of where why our children are not grasping the skills?
SPEAKER_02:I think it's a you know, teaching it's not just about a teacher getting classroom. That's right. Blah blah blah blah. Not just one leg.
SPEAKER_04:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Second leg, the the administration, third leg, the State Department of Education, fourth leg, maybe the parents or whatever. All of those pieces have to come together. And um, if we're not intentional, then we don't care. Only thing we care about is us, mine. But if we're not intentional, we're gonna we're gonna lose these kids. I'm I'm always processing, what can I do to keep this thing alive? You know. What what can I do to make sure those who come behind us have the same opportunity that you and I have. And that's the process, not the A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Mm-hmm. Because that's jive. They can make that look any way they want to look. Well, um And I hope I'm not going off.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, no, no, no, you're fine, you're fine. A couple of weeks back we had Representative Robert Williams in, and we talked about the bill um uh where the each student is funded, and that child can take that money and go to a parochial tribe. That voucher program. That voucher program. What's your take on that?
SPEAKER_02:I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good. And it was set up and designed to to um allow children to take that money and go to another school. But what what what we found out, particularly from an African-American perspective, I can ask for that money to go to a, you know, this private school, but then I have to come up with the rest of the money to pay for it. So whatever money I get, whatever voucher I get, if I don't have money to pay for the rest, then it ain't gonna make me, it's not gonna make any difference to me. So that voucher program for those who can contribute to it. I think I think each kid gets, I think, about$11,000 a year,$7,000 to$11,000 a year that comes from the State Department for student. If they get that voucher, it may cost more at a private school. And so, where is that kid going to get the remainder of that money, basically, to pay? So it wasn't designed for us. It was designed for those who can add to the voucher, basically.
SPEAKER_04:Well, um, look at this.
SPEAKER_02:It's not a good bill. It's not a good bill.
SPEAKER_04:Well, look at this. Um, um, turning beauty into ashes, like you said, beauty for ashes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, ashes is the beauty.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah. Um, what if uh this case scenario, what if churches got together, or individual churches, or however situation, and if they were to have a day school or something for the children, and and take that$11,000 for that child and bring that child to uh a a new setting because I think that would be a grand idea.
SPEAKER_02:Charter schools originated from African American communities. Okay. We charter schools came about because we wasn't getting what we needed in traditional, so we start our own schools. But those other folks of our friends of the lighted pew have taken the charter schools and done something else with it. Now, I am interested, right, as we speak, in starting a charter school where the standards are here, and there is the curriculum, and I and you can base your curriculum like you want to. I think it's a grand idea for African American churches to come together and start their own school. Because at one point, that's all we had.
SPEAKER_03:That's all we have.
SPEAKER_02:You know, under the steeple, there used to be education, economics, community development, all under one steeple. And maybe this is God making us go back there. Start our own charter school. I think Bible Way is beginning to start theirs, a charter school.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and um, there's a school that my daughter is affiliated with. It's called Soaring Eagles Christian Academy.
SPEAKER_02:Where is that here?
SPEAKER_04:In Columbia.
SPEAKER_02:And there might be one in France real soon.
SPEAKER_04:And that would be wonderful because I think that would really, you know, boost our babies.
SPEAKER_02:You know, we need to. That's how we take it back. Yeah. We can't expect them to teach us. The oppressor, the oppressor will not teach the oppressed. What values that he's gonna teach me how to be? And say not teaching me how to come. So we have to do it ourselves.
SPEAKER_04:Do it ourselves. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Um, one thing you and I talked about um prior to our going on to the broadcast about the money that the state sinks into um education. Let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_02:Uh what you want to talk about.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we talked about priority but um you know, you said that um here in South Carolina, we sink a great deal of money into the budget, if you look at our state budget.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. If you look at what we spend in education, it's extremely high. It was not the highest when you look at the overall educational budget. And then you have to wonder about the results and where that budgetarial money is going if we are still, we moved up, but we're still not in the top 10. And we're spending a whole lot of money. And I guess we need to find out where that money is going. Is it going to administrative costs? Is it going to health care? It's going to retirement. Whatever is going, we are recognized, I am recognizing and realizing it's not going into the classrooms. It's just not. Because the results are not there.
SPEAKER_04:I gotcha. I gotcha. So um so that's one thing that um the oversight committee needs to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And we're looking. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:But it's so many fastest. I I think our educational system is still working on the premise when it first begun. In in that, you know, you you teach them the past. You don't teach them to live, teach them to pass from one grade to the other, one grade to the other. And and that could be simplified or it can be ignored. And I think we do well with both of them. We can simplify the passing or we can ignore the passing, just let them cooperate. And then when they get to high school, they can't read and write. You know? So our educational system needs to be redapted. And I consider this called the learning system, not the education. You know, how we learn, how students learn, you know, and what we need to do to help them to learn differently. Because who they're dealing with is not their neighbor next door anymore. They're dealing with the person around the world.
SPEAKER_03:That's who we are competing against.
SPEAKER_02:Not our neighbors, but around the world. And uh and in some places they're they're going around us like it ain't nothing.
SPEAKER_04:And the internet has a lot to do with that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that whole social media. That's all this guy about this whole social media component. What we're doing here.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. It's a crazy stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Who would have thought 10 years ago? And just imagine if we're doing this now, what our children would be doing later.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So it's best to get them engaged and involved right now and ready them for what's coming before us, basically. That's us, you know.
SPEAKER_04:And one last question. Florence, our educational system here. What's your outlook on that?
SPEAKER_02:I I received an invite from the superintendent about that new porner building.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That is a beautiful.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, it is. And I told my middle school, that's the super school I went to.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. I told my superintendent, I said, man, you just keep making, you just keep showing how you can make district woman look good. A lot of folks don't like it. But he has won basically five different superintendents' award, other than superintendent of the year. And he didn't have a one superintendent of the year because he hadn't been here long enough.
SPEAKER_03:To him. To him, uh huh.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, but he his grades are up. His grades are really up. You know, his his his class, his, his, his population, his workforce is pretty decent comparable to others. And he and he does some things that haven't been done. And uh a lot of folks will like it. But I think Joe, the last time before we built these new schools, the last time we had a uh a game at Wilson High Schools in 1970. And he came about four years ago and gave us our stadium back. And his like I said, his grades are good. You know, his grades are good. So I think this one is in a very good position. We just have to take advantage of it. You know, we have we have to make sure that they are doing what they say.
SPEAKER_03:Keep them accountable, keep it accountable.
SPEAKER_02:Keep the teachers, the principals, the superintendents, and the parents, the family accountable. That's what makes the child. All of us. The village. The village.
SPEAKER_04:Great, great, great. Yeah, that accountability is key. Key. It is key, it is key. Well, I tell you, um, this has been very enlightening.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, well, thank you. Thank you, classmate.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes, yes, yes. We were McClinigan high school graduates there together.
SPEAKER_02:But that's a, you know, that porner building. It is not a beautiful building. I I often I would ride by it at night even before they started the construction. And ride by it at night and look at it. That's a beautiful building at night. Now they have lit up that corner. It is a beautiful corner.
SPEAKER_04:And you went there? Yeah, I went to Porter. That's my middle school. I didn't know that, Joseph. Yes, I sure did. And um, and uh one beautiful piece of history is that was Wilson High School.
SPEAKER_02:I know. I know that was it. That was it. And then it went over, then it went over to behind the boys club, Anthony's at the boys club. Yes. And and you know that building where the police officers are. They just be the library.
SPEAKER_04:The library, I remember.
SPEAKER_03:I am trying to get that bag to be a library.
SPEAKER_04:Really? One of the members of this church, Ms. Juanita Myers, was the librarian there. No.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, she was. I uh I spoke some years ago. I said, man, give us our library bank.
SPEAKER_02:That would be sweet. Instead of a police junkyard. That's all it is.
SPEAKER_04:Really?
SPEAKER_02:They don't, they don't, I don't know what it do.
SPEAKER_04:Give us our library bag. That would be really nice for our children. Yeah. Our library bag. So you keep keep pushing that.
SPEAKER_00:I am.
SPEAKER_04:Give us our library back. Uh yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I approached him about it some years ago, and then a lot of stuff took going on. I think I'm gonna reignite that.
SPEAKER_04:Revisit it, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, based on our city council.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And what we have.
SPEAKER_04:We might be able to work that out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Y'all hear that?
SPEAKER_04:Y'all hear that? With our mayor, too, who's a member of this church. I know.
SPEAKER_02:So we can do a lot of things if we just set our mind to it. So okay, this is what we can do. Particularly if we have the authority to do it.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:That's important. And we do at this point.
SPEAKER_04:Amen. Amen. Well, again, it is so nice to have you here with us on today. And uh the doors swing open for you to come back.
SPEAKER_02:Bless you.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And uh I'm hoping to start this in January.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Can I announce it? It's gonna be called Commentary.
SPEAKER_04:All right. So your podcast will be Commentary.
SPEAKER_02:Commentary. All right. We can talk about all kinds of stuff.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we look forward to that. And I'm excited. We hear at Native Drums. Wish you the best.
SPEAKER_02:I've been playing while you leave, but you left it. It sounds so good.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Thanks again.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_04:I appreciate you as well. And thank you, everyone, for um tuning in to Native Drums on this Sunday evening. Um, you be blessed and see you next week.