What Do You Owe Your Ancestors And Your Vote

A single deed can hold a whole world. We talk with Terry James, founder and executive director of the Jamestown Foundation, about what it takes to protect Black family land and turn it into a public place of learning. Terry walks us from the foundation’s start in 2007 to the annual Jamestown celebration, where storytellers, craftspeople, Tuscarora artists, and historical reenactors help visitors understand life during Reconstruction and beyond. 

We also dig into the award-winning attention Jamestown has received, including major news recognition and an Emmy win for “Our Family’s History: The Story of Jamestown.” That visibility sparks something bigger than headlines: it draws people from across the country who are hungry for African American history that is specific, documented, and rooted in place. Terry shares the gripping story of Irvin James buying 109 acres in the 1870s, signing with an X, and pushing forward when the odds were designed to stop him. 

From there, the conversation widens into genealogy research and civic engagement. We talk DNA testing, archives, census and estate records, and the emotional moment when family history becomes proof. Terry also brings practical voter registration guidance for South Carolina, including how to check status on scvotes.org, what “inactive” really means, and why voting rights history still shapes what happens today. If you care about genealogy, Reconstruction-era history, African American landownership, and voter registration facts, this one connects the dots. 

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who cares about local history, and leave a review with the biggest question you’re still trying to answer about your family or your vote.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Native Drums to this edition. Um we were last month celebrating women. Uh this month we are um just doing a little different um twist. We're going to touch on a little bit of everything this month, all right. Now, today we have with us Terry James. Terry is the founder and executive director of the Jamestown Foundation. Hello, Terry. Good evening.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hello, good to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

It's great. It's great to have you here with us. We've been knowing each other for a good little while now, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yes, many years.

Preserving Land Through A Foundation

SPEAKER_03 0:43

So we'll have a wonderful conversation because we always, when we get together, we always we always have great talks. So um it's a pleasure to be able to um share it with our viewers and with Native Drum. So let's talk about the Jamestown Foundation now. Tell them the purpose of Jamestown Foundation, uh the birth, what, how was this seed planted?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Okay. Well, back in 2007, um we decided the family decided to um preserve the property other than get rid of it. Um so they took a vote, we did a survey, and they took a vote and they appointed me as the one who should get that test done.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So that's when the uh Jamestown Foundation was created. Um actually it was a cousin's husband who lived in Ohio. Um so when he suggested that we do a foundation to put me over it, everybody voted for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

And so that's when I became um, you know, started the Jamestown Foundation. I think we really got started and a few years later after that. There was a few hiccups along the way, but we finally got it, got our footing and got it, got it, got it started, became a became a a nonprofit shortly after that, and where we are tax exempt, you know.

Jamestown Festival As Public History

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Okay. All right, so um each year we celebrate Jamestown, and it's about that time of year now?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yes, July the twenty fourth through the twenty-sixth. We do uh come celebrate Jamestown. We bring in artists and and craftsmen and storytellers, Native Americans, the uh Tuscarora Indians. Okay, do their thing. We have blacksmith, we have people who may look like Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. Reenactments and stuff. Reenactments, Harriet Tugman, woodworkers from places like Colony Windsburg. There's Robert Watson Jr., he's been there for about 43 years. He's now retired, but he still comes to us. And he is an awesome storyteller, craftsman with the wood, he's awesome. We also have Mr. Jerome Bias. He's he's he can make furniture just better than Habitat, so to say. He's awesome and that kind of stuff. So we we we bring these people in to educate and they go die, folks. You know, uh the Buffalo Soldiers, 54th, we have all kinds of people there just trying to educate the public on how life was during that time period. Right. Reconstruction, not even slavery, yeah.

Awards That Boosted The Mission

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Definitely, definitely. That is that's great. That's a great thing because we need to know our history. We need to know from whence we have come, um, because um that's a part of um life's lessons. Um looking at our genealogy as which is something else we want to talk about, um, knowing what in our background, what is in our background, like for instance, in my background, music, of course, you know. So my children are um gifted with the gift of music. So my mama, my daddy, my grandma, grants, everyone. So we need to know um our background, and this is a good thing with Jamestown Foundation. Now, the award-winning Jamestown Foundation. So let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Let's talk about that. Wow, well, 2023, I believe, um, WMBF News, Darion Hens Henson, yeah. Henderson and George Henson, okay, the videographer, came out to Jamestown, and George told me he kept the magazine that we're on, we're actually on the cover of uh South Carolina Live magazine. Oh, wow. A cover, and so we got a lot of great uh feedback from that. And so George Henson said he kept that magazine in his car for a whole year. And so finally he caught up with us and they talked about coming out. So we we did interviews um with myself and Miss Helen Thompson, who is a descendant of the person who sold Irvin James the property. Okay, which is Eli McKisson and Mary Posen. But anyway, make it a long story short, um they came out and did an interview, and in that it's called Our Family's History, the story of Jamestown. They entered it into six different categories through the news.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

We won four of those six.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Oh my goodness.

Irvin James And Land Ownership

SPEAKER_00 5:07

And Edward O. Morrill Award, Region 8, I think it incorporated North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee, and Kentucky. As we won in our category in that, and that was exciting. And then we uh we were entered into the Black Journal Journalists Association, entered into the Emmy, the Southeastern Emmy Award, and we went to Atlanta for that one, and and when they said, they announced that they said, and the category, the win, the the uh category is, and they called it a nostalgia award, and they said there are three three persons nominated. And when they said, and the winner is, and they said the serial change, I was like, yes. It was so exciting, because he had about five to six hundred people in the room. Okay. It was it was something to behold. I mean, really, it was it gave me so much energy and enthusiasm to all this hard work finally paid off. And so, you know, a lot of times you go out in the community, people people say, hey man, I really appreciate what you're doing, you know, hanging on to your family's property. And and no, it's not easy because I talk to folks in low country, and I've I've gotten messages from folks from Ohio, have done interviews from people from California, Chicago, um, uh, Indiana. I mean, they they constantly want to know about Jamestown. People are interested in Jamestown. And a few years ago, it's probably about 12 or so years ago, a young lady was from Indiana, so I got to do that. She was passing through Florence and she was in a motel when she saw the papers. She told her husband, I got to go to this place. And we had it that weekend, so she came out, we talked, and so she interviewed me. You know, she later on interviewed me. So a lot of people are excited about Jamestown. Um, the history of Jamestown is phenomenal. Um, Irvin James and his wife Nora James, um, you know, back in the 1870s, um, Irvin decided I don't want to be a tenant farmer sharecropper. I want my own property.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

So he collaborated with Eli McKissett and Mary E. Poston. And the story my grandfather told me, Reverend Tony James said to me, he said, um, he was told from his father that when Irvin purchased the property, Eli McKissett would run out of town. They threatened his life. So he went to Augusta, I believe that's what they told me. He went to Augusta for a while. And then he, you know, he was a Methodist preacher. But the unique part about that was I looked at when they signed the uh the the agreement the um that Irvin's ex was there. It said Irvin X. And I say, wow. That's the only time X meant so much very important. Right. But also Elam McKiss signed with an X. So he couldn't read or write as well. So um I was like, wow. But anyway, and you know, so they did that. But the thing was, Irvin purchased at 109 acres for$700. Excuse me, for$700.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

And uh he put$400 down to begin with. And I'm like, where did Irving get$400 from? I talked with people who, the historians that I know, uh USC and different places, Clemson State, and all said that he was more than just a farmer. He had other skills and he probably rented them out. I'm not sure what he had, to have that kind of money to buy and purchase property single-handedly. And um I looked at some of his labor contracts, just one that I found, excuse me, one that I found, it was 1866. He it was with um William T. Wilson, who was a former slave owner. Um the labor contract read um Irvin James Color and family. But William T. Wilson also had another labor contract, and he had about nine or twelve names on that one, but Irvin had a different contract. I was like, wow. But what he I think he did wheat, corn, some other things he did. I can't remember everything right now. But he got one-third of one, he got a half of one, and three-fourths of the other crops when he when he got to harvest crop. And and the agreement was uh William T. Wilson would supply him with two old mules, and that's what they wrote, old mules that he had, and a few um farm equipment. That's all he had to have. But um apparently, but the unique part was, well, I'll say unique, but um William T. Wilson, about seven or eight months into the contract, or maybe six months, he passed away. And he died in test state without a will. So his he had to go to court and the overseer had to turn it over to his wife. She died a month or two later. Oh my. So they his granddaughter came in and tried to do it, she was like 16 or 17, and the court says no. Number one, she was a female, she was young. Her father was killed, killed in the Civil War.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

And so they they end up s auctioning off all of uh William T. Wilson's stuff. Guess who's standing in the auction? Irvin James. Irvin James. You had to have some tough courage. You're you're standing at an auction with folks who used to own people look like Irvin James. So we but he was a fierce man. He had to be a fierce man. Strong business mind, too. Right. And so he purchased, it was either one or two red sows, a sow's hog, if you know, a female hog. Um and they one was, I think it was$20 or$25 he paid for the hog, and a lot of shucks. You know, shucks, you know, off the corn. Right. But you could do different things with shuck. You can use it, can twist it, you know, like the huddle chairs do. Or you can take any stuff bedding with it off the shuck.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

They did different things with shucks.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

And some other stuff with shucks.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

But um, but that's what he did. I said, this man is this was this dude was he was he was a strong-minded, strong-willed man. And also in 1868, um, checking the registry, I was like, wait a minute. I said, whoa. Okay. Who registered and voted? Irvin James. I said, this boy was off the chain.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

It's really exciting to see these documents.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

When you see that stuff, you'd be like, oh my God. I mean, I I went to sleep that night, I was like riding on feet and I was floating in the bed, you know. But it was, it's always good when you find documentation to show where your ancestors, what they have accomplished in a difficult time in American history.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Um, reconstruction was successful periods, but it's always also was one of the most difficult because you had those who did not want you to achieve that.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

And they came out in, you know, and fiercely and and attacked and did what did their damage trying to discourage you. But Irvin said, I'm not having it. And um, so he signed a that actually he actually purchased a property in s 1869. No, 1870s, right. But he actually signed the deed to that, the whatever the X in 71. Because, you know, but the the the thing is, I saw the other um deed where he they mortgaged him the land.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Because he couldn't go to a bank, so Eli McKissett and Mary Post and mortgaged him the land. He put$400 down on it. By the end of that next year, he had$300, he paid it all.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

He paid it all.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

That was 71, but Irvine 72, 72. But Irvin died in 72. No, 71, but he died in 72. So I always I'm I'm searching to see what happened to Irvin. Did he die from natural causes or did he have some assistance in his yeah?

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

We don't know. Um so I'm still looking for the documents, you know. That's why I also have genealogical workshops. That's right. You stumac things sometimes. You put it down, you get burnt out, you get to a brick wall, you just say, okay, take a break from this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Because it can't consume you. That research can really have you hooked, you up two and three o'clock in the morning. I know. You know, trying to find stuff.

Genealogy Workshops That Build Identity

SPEAKER_03 13:31

I totally understand. I understand. Because I love history and um research as well. Um, you mentioned genealogy. Yes. You mentioned that. Um tell our viewers, um, let them know about the importance of genealogy and um and the different um workshops that you've done previously.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

To me, that's one of the most important things, especially when you have kids, children. Oh, yes. Um, especially boy children. I'm not saying girls can't, but especially boy children, because they're rambunctious, they want to know, and and sometimes the the male figure is not there. And so to help them to understand who they are, genealogy can help do that through research and find out who your father is, who your mother's father is, who your grandfather is, you know, and on and on. Once they start doing that, connecting the dots, right? Especially if you got pictures too, and seeing what accomplishment they have done, it helps them to develop, you know, saying, hey, I'm I'm I'm I'm somebody. Like Jesse would say, I am somebody. Yes. So it helps them as well. But genealogy and workshops is so important. And uh, we've helped so many people over the years and when we've done these things, and actually a few years ago we had one um at Francis Marion Grocery. That's right. We partnered them in a lot of things as well. They would um, it was uh he was he was working at Archivist at that time, excuse me, Steve Tuttle. Doc Steve Tuttle. He's probably been at Archives 40 years, 37, 40 years, and he noticed that. So he brought a document. He just picked up some local documents. I mean, some document he ran some looking around, and lo and behold, one of the women that was in the audience, when he said, I got these documents, um, he called the name. She said, Wait a minute, let me see that. It was actually one of her ancestors. What? So that's the kind of sometimes we get we get excited about that. But it's a lot, you know, you can you can do last will and testaments, um, do estates when they when they wrote out, they wrote out how many enslaved people they had, right? Who they belonged to. And I guess the thing that was kind of the pressing hurt for one time when I learned that even if you you got a 13, 11, 13-year-old child there, and they said, when this child has a baby, it goes to my daughter, so-and-so. I said, Oh God, that's tough. Before you even have the child, it's already been given away, you know. So I was like, wow, yeah. So that was like having trouble hearing it.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

You hear my my um iPad is talking, you know. So I was trying to quiet the pin pings on it. But uh go on, Jerry, I am so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

But uh that's okay. But you know, we when you see that right there, when you see that your child is not really your child. That's right. Because it's chattel slavery. Yeah. You know, when you were born into m into slavery, you you were enslaved because you were born, you know, you were born enslaved. And you couldn't get out of it. So it's called chattel slavery. So, you know, but the thing is the unique part, you check, you check farm records, you check, you know, the old agricultural records, um uh the census. They said, well, you can't find that past 1870, yes, you can. There's a lot of ways you can find stuff. And like they had a physician over in Society Hill, and I cannot remember his name, and that's where most of the slave people were taken to Society Hill if they had an illness. And so one of my descendants was over in Society Hill, um, getting sick, and I think he had something on with his stomach. Um, so once you do, once you start doing genealogical work, you find out also that um one of Irvin's sons partnered with three other people, are the three other people in Darlington County and started the Mutual Color Life Insurance Association.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yes, his uh that was Eli. Eli Eli James, um, one of Irvin's sons, went over there and did that. But he also did it with some Benjamins, a couple of Benjamins. Really? Yes, yes. I saw their names there. There's some other names I can't remember right now. But but genealogy and workshops, uh, we try to help you find who you are. And it's connecting that, it helps you to be a whole person. That's right. If you find out, well, I didn't know that was my cousin. You know, and we're kidding, some folks that I didn't, I had no clue up until a few years ago that actually our representative uh Terry Alexander and our closer cousin, we thought. And so um his great-grandmother, Miss Mary James Alexander, and my great-grandfather Henry James, Reverend Henry James, were brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

So I was like, whoa. So, you know, you find out those kind of things. It makes you excited. Yeah. You know, to tie the families together. Um, even on my uh grandfather's mother, they her mother was from Marion. She was a Grant. She was the only one with a grant, but her mother ended up marrying a Stevenson, so they tie in. And then you got the P's, they tie in. You got the Browns, they tie in.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

So it's it's uh We are having something with these telephones in there. Ah, yes. But you know, when you said the P's, that's um you're you're hitting um well um my daughter-in-law is the P.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Okay, yeah. Yeah, from lanes and centenary and all that area down there, yeah. Once you start doing that, you start you start like, wow, the Fords that were in the family. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

You know, um the Fords out of most are they out of out of Mars Bluff?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Mars Bluff, but more more so out of Dillonary. Well, Marion, but used to before it came Dylan, it was Marionary. Yeah. Um, you know, and um the the the the Alexander was Townsend Alexander, was her husband, and so that's how she became Alexander. But the names, once you start getting them in there, and actually there's a name called um dang, what was it? Um Ori. But it's O-R-R. So I'm spelled a little bit different. Right. But there was an O Ree who was the first black hockey player from South Kiss family from South Carolina. So I'm thinking that's a strange name. So we might be tying in, but he ended up living in Canada, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Um so you know, it's it's it's crazy how these names and these people tie into your family.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Tie into your family, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

So that's why we do, that's why we do the workshops to basically get people educated and get them to research their families and and build a build a um a uh book for their kids, so kids will know you won't be marrying your cousins sometimes. People are like, oh man, you marry your cousin. And I tell them all the time, I say, you gotta understand the climate of the time period. Yeah, you know, you cousins are not marrying cousins. You're from the same community, like Savannah Grove. You know, cousins, hey, they used to say, well, third cousin don't matter. Third cousin matters, you know. But it does matter. It does. But these kind of things happen in the communities. Um, I had cousins in the James family who married each other and knew it, you know. But they it's what happens, and you can't you can't erase history.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

No.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

It is what it is. You know, if you know better, you do better, but you know, back then, you know. If you don't know, you don't know. No, you don't know. So, you know, anytime you hear certain names and remember the old folk, you say, Who your people? Right. Oh boy, you can't come here. I'm your friend, you know. But yeah, that kind of stuff. You know, it happens, it happens. But yeah, genealogy is very important. And you know, and um, I I spoke with a lot of young people. And they don't say, Well, well, my daddy ain't no good. Wait a minute. I said, Well, wait a minute now. If he's no good, it's probably you no good. So be careful what you're saying. Be careful what you say. So you can't you do your part, you can't do their part. They have to live their life. And so we we we help a lot of people, and I get help a lot, you know, from my friends who are all over the world. I mean, seriously. Uh New York, uh, I just called my friend yesterday from Delaware. And she was in Jersey, now she's in Delaware, so we still talk about genealogy. Right. Uh, workshops, and what's going on. With AUG, I think it's a big uh genealogic workshop called AUG. Really? I've never been, don't know that much about it, but I've heard a lot about it. You know, sometimes they go out to um Utah and different places like that. I can't, I can't, I can't, I won't say I can't travel. I don't travel that far, you know, because I have to work and uh they do too, but uh it's cost everyone today. But it's it's a lot of help with the with your local um with the with the public libraries here in Florence from Darlington. Um brother Brian Gandhi is awesome, man.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

He's he's at the Darlington County.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah, he's he's he's he's over at the Darlington County Historical Society at the museum there. He's good. I've been there before. That's a great place. The state archaeological uh the research there, the South Carolinian library. There's a lot of resources out there if you want to learn. You can go YouTube University and type in some stuff that'll help you in the research, get behind that brick wall.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

You can even go to our library here and find some stuff. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that that that's great. That's great. Now, there's some software uh because everybody talks about um ancestry.com. But what are some of the other, there's some other software as well, right, that can be utilized?

SPEAKER_00 23:14

23andMe. Okay. You got African Ancestry. Yes. Um there's several out there, I don't know all of them. Right. And um, and you can get with these guys that are, they call them what they call themselves genetic geneticists. And what they'll do, once you get your DNA, they'll break it down for you. Okay. They help break it down to you. Um, there was a gentleman up in the Maryland area uh by the name of Shannon Christmas. He's awesome. He's awesome with that. But there's others out there, but he's just the one that we've had at our workshops.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

And uh, Ms. Robin, um, she's awesome. She's now in North Carolina. Um, but she's awesome too, Ms. Robin.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Well, we'll be delighted whenever you do another one here in um in our area. I know the last one you had was at Francis Marion University.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

We're working on actually putting one together now with some other things. We're gonna add some stuff to it to make it more exciting, more broader than just uh genealogical workshop. Right. Working on some things again. Right. And hopefully within the next month or two, we'll have it and put the word out so people want to come. We're looking to bring some some real heavy folks in to come and help us to to help people break through.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Well, we look forward to that. I know I look forward to it, and I have had some discussions with um some of my friends and some other people as well who uh like with their family reunions and what have you that were extremely interested in that. So um the quicker you have it, the better, the better, because I too have um uh discovered relatives right here in the church that I didn't know. You know, and that was through ancestry.com with the DNA.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

It'll hook you up now.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Yeah, they'll hook you up. Well, because there were some missing links.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

There were some missing links, and so um we still have to research to find out where that missing link were to attach it, but the DNA did help us to discover that we were related.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

And one of the things, I I did my I know a lot about my father's side of the family, but I didn't know that much about my mother's side. But I got a few names from one of my cousins, Missy Vette James McNeil. And uh she gave me two names or three names, and when I started researching them, I already had it, I already had the names already, right? Didn't know what I was looking at. And so I gave them to a friend of mine, Miss Robin, and Robin told me, uh, Robin Foster. And she said, Terry, you got it already here. I said, What? She said, You got it right here. And so she told me. So I I locked them into Ancestry, and man, I got her family is like growing. Come to find out, um, my second great grandmother was actually an enslaved person on the Great Plantation.

unknown 26:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yes, she was an enslaved person on the Great Plantation, which is where Frances Mary sits. And understand now Francis Mary had nothing to do with slavery itself. Right. That was the land owners of that place. That's right. Yeah. And they doing they're doing an awesome job as well, because they got the group USS University studying slavery. And they're doing a lot of great things as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Um, Erica Johnson and those guys are doing an awesome job as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

So the cabins out Yeah, there was a Greg's Greg Wallace Gregg plantation.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Okay. That's what I'm saying. I don't know that much, but I don't know enough that know that. Those cabins were part of the Greg plantation. And you know, the school across the is called Wallace. We always call it Wallace Greg, but it's actually Wallace and Greg.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Wallace A. Greg?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Wallace and Greg. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I always say, we always say Wallace Greg, but it's actually Wallace and Greg school. Yeah.

Registered And Ready Voting Basics

SPEAKER_03 27:09

You have taught us a new school. We can get a lesson today. Uh well now look, I just want to switch up a little bit because Terry, you also uh work with voters registration.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yes, yes, yes. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

And it's that time of the year. And this, and see, I'm looking at my the questions on my hand. Tiri, stop talking. Stop talking. Amazing. But she is, she is okay. She's looking at me really funny. Giving me the really well. But let's talk about voter registration and about the validation. Um, because we we keep hearing different things uh about your uh ID and all of that. So um how about educate us on that?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Well, I'll do the best I can with that stuff because it changes daily. We hear stuff daily, but until it becomes law, we don't move on it. Okay. And we'll educate the public on that. Some of the things we need to do right now in the in Florence County, we have about 81,000 plus registered voters. We have about 81,000 plus. We're trying to get at over 100,000.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Um, but it takes all of us. And uh new little piece we're tossing around is registered and ready. Registered and ready. Just not registered, but registered and ready. And so if if you have any questions, you can come out of 2193 to the voter registration office, and we will help you whatever you need, or you can go to um SC Votes. Uh SC Votes.org and go on their line. You can look at your uh voter history, you can look at um whether if your address change, all that kind of stuff. You can do it online actually. And we're having more people now coming in and um want to do drives.

unknown 29:13

Okay.

Voting Rights History And Power

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So we we we're just trying to educate people um as much as we can. We're asking and you know, with the churches, uh, if you need us, you know, you call us and you can actually request that we bring the equipment here to your church and we can actually do a marking lecture. Really? Yeah, we'll let the state know the state will send us down the the marketing lecture. It won't be names, it might be peanut butter and jellies. All right. And so we get people familiar with the machines. We can we can do the breakdown on the machines, you know, kind of explain what is a poll book, what is express folks, what is the DS300, you know, what is our MyFi? Does it hook to the internet? No, it does not. Nothing we do hooks to the internet. Um so we have to educate people as much as possible. That's right. I I don't feel confident with this thing. I want a paper ballot. No, you don't. This is the best way because we're being watched. When I tell you, we've been watched, we've been state of South Carolina, and this is all over the nation, really, we're being watched. And the more stuff you hear outside, you know, it makes our job more difficult. We have to do more explaining, and we have pamphlets, whatever you need, we're here to help the public understand the process of voting and how important how important voting is. That's right. And I I love the history of voting. And I tell people, research the history of. Don't take my word for it, do your own research of voting. How it was back in a time period where only white men with land. I'm gonna say it again, white men with land could vote. The poor white folks, you ain't got no land, you couldn't vote.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Women you couldn't vote. Black folk, you know you couldn't vote. You see what I'm saying? But as time changes, when after the Civil War came in, then that's when you saw your whole dynamics change. That's when Alfred Rush got elected. And um um uh what's his name? Got elected. I can't remember his name right now, elude me. Um he's buried, actually, he's buried in the Mamazine United Message Church and Cemetery. Oh, okay. The other recon the other Reconstruction era representative from he was a part of Marin County. Um but that's when, you know, during that time that harsh time period when um Stephen Swales, who was with the 54th, he was the first black mayor of King Street during that time period. And he was uh he was with the state with the with the South Carolina as a representative as well.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

But when the Reconstruction, when they pulled back the federal troops, you know, he sent his family away, but he stayed and hid. He would sneak in at night on the train or whatever and do some work. But he was he was actually did a marker down there in 80 in the 80s through representative to actually Congressman Clydeburn at that time down in Lake City. But um King Street. King Street. King Street. So he was the first black mayor down there, Lieutenant Stephen Swells.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Well I've um I've seen a picture, a historical picture of the um the black legislators during that time.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

And I mean they were a plethora of yeah. And the thing people fail to realize is that these guys were, they call them the uh radicals. The free radicals, that's what they were called, because they were raised so much saints. But they were a lot of them were pre preachers, pastors. They were they were there, and the unique part about it, they would have church before they had their sessions. Amen. They would have church. And the largest church in the United States at that time was at the White House. They had church at the White House. At the White House. At the White House. Then we would go into session, they would they would do what they do and then raise sand. They would raise sand. You know, they call them free radicals, so free radicals. Anything I'm talking about, just research yourself. I'm not talking about just pulling stuff out of the air. Um these guys were powerful people. They were not afraid.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

That's right. Alfred Rush was a deacon here at Savannah Church.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

And you know, then you had what you call maroon communities. Okay. Maroons were people who ran away from the plantation and ran in the swamp, live in the swamps. Oh my. Oh yeah. They'd rather live with the water moccasins and the alligators and the bobcats and and all that stuff, but to just show you the brutality of slavery. You know, a lot of I tell a lot of times I talk to different audiences, mixed audiences, and I'll say this to them: I cannot hold you responsible to happen in slavery. Reconstruction of Jim Crow. But I said if your mindset is still set in that period, we need to have a conversation. Thank you. And you'll find out what you want for your family or for my family. If you want a nice house, I want a nice house. If you want a good job, I want a good job. I just want to be treated fairly. And so most people understand, some don't. You know, you can't, you can't, you can't make people understand, but you can let them know I'm not upset with you for what happened in slavery. But once again, if you think that you're what you're doing uh is is you think you're better than me, you're not. Because if I have a kidney, you need a kid, and I give you a kidney, I'm the best person in the whole white world. You know. And then we're we were with uh another group I'm a part of, which is uh a slave dwelling project, which is my friend Joe McGill, who's really just from King Street, but he lives in Charleston, the Lats in the community. And we were up in Virginia at Belgrove Plantation doing a session, and this white guy walked in. We were just ending it, wrapping it up, and we were getting our stuff up. He said, Man, I wanted to get here, but they called me to work, had to work. I said, Okay. He said, I had my DNA done. And Joe and I looked at each other. Joe said, What'd you find? He said, I found that my great-grandmother was a black woman. I said, Whoa. He looked just as an average white guy.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

I was like, whoa. And Joe said, How do you feel? He said, I'm looking at this thing differently now. Joe said, that's the kind of effect we need to have on people. You know, make you look at things differently.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Because what you want in life, other people want it too. You know, our culture may be different, but the way we want to live, people want to live. Most people want to live in a peaceful life. Raise their kids, raise their families, do what they do, you know. But some people, you know, it's gonna be who they are. Ain't nothing you can do about that. Um another group, I was just at a session, another group was there called Coming to the Table. And where you had the descendants of the enslaved and the enslavers sitting across the table having a conversation. And uh I was up in Virginia, I can't remember exactly where I was, and this white guy is about six three, six two, six three, he's tall, he was slim. And so he introduced himself. He said, Terry, I said, Yes, sir. He said, I was a racist. I said, Oh my god, I kind of caught me up. I said, Whoa. He said, I was a racist. He said, um he said I was a racist, didn't realize I was a racist. And so God is taking me now to help other white men see that they can be racist or racist. I said, Whoa, he said, What changed his heart? He said his daughter went off to school and she met this black guy. He denounced her. He said, I don't want anything to do with you, you gotta do this guy, you can't don't bring it to my blah, blah, blah. So anyway, his daughter ended up married, they ended up getting married and had a little baby. He said they brought the baby to see him. And then he said that baby looked just like me. He told me, he said, Terry, he said, I didn't do it when they left. He said, but when they left, he said, I bowled up in the middle of my floor in my living room. He said, I cried for about 30 or 40 minutes. I just bowled. He said, I cried. I was balled up like a baby on the floor. He said, I just cried and I cried and cried. He said, After that, I apologized to my daughter, to her husband. I said alone. He said, that was a changed man for me. He said, I was going to church and I was doing all myself. So, wow, man. So you meet good, you meet people like that. You meet people like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

God has a way.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

It does, and and that's what it's all about. I tell people time, I ain't mad with you about nothing. That's the pass. But if you're trying to bring that, you're trying to force that pass forward, I'm gonna give you some resistance. Oh, yeah, right. You know, we can't do that now. Rightly so. We all, and I tell people this, even when I'm boating, we in this boat called South Carolina. If you shoot holes in one side of the boat, guess what? We all go down together. So don't be fooled by what you see. I said, because, and I use a scenario. This, I say, there's three dogs, two big dogs and a little dog. I said, You got a dog on a big dog on the right, big dog on the left. They're going at each other, biting each other's ears, biting each other's tail off, chewing each other's foot. And I said, the little dog looked back, sat back, watch it, get into it real good. The little dog reaches over to grab the bone and go on down the road. I said, so I said, you on the left and you're on the right, and that little dog is that politician. I said, don't let them fool you. You don't let them fool you. I I spoke with people from Tim Scott's office, it doesn't matter to me. I spoke with people from Tim Scott's office, and um, and this gentleman down there, he said, Terry, he said, I'm telling you, I've been doing this thing for 30-something years. All of them the same. I said, huh? He said, all of them the same. He said, they put that front, he said, eat dinner, they go to each other's house on Thanksgiving, they take trips together, they're in the golf, golfing together. He said, listen to me. He said, I've been here long enough, and I'm an older man now. He said, I've seen it all. I said, wow. But that's why I tell people, use common sense. You use common sense, you know. I don't care if this, if you're, you know, just use the throwing, if you're a Democrat or Republican, if you were voting in my district, you still represent me. I'm gonna call you up if I need something. That's right. It doesn't matter to me. It don't matter to me. I'm a Democrat, I don't care. I'm gonna fellas, I don't care. Yeah. Are you doing what the job it calls for? If you're doing what the responsibility calls for, that's what I care about. Are you helping the people, you're helping yourself? Yeah. If you help yourself and the people, hey, I ain't gonna do with that, but just helping the people. You know, don't throw that's right. Don't throw us nothing, you know, a bunch of crap, you know, fluff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you ain't doing nothing, you know. But you know, that's that's that's life, you know.

Purge Rumors And Voter Status

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Such is life. Yes. Such is life. And there's so many conversations, different conversations about that. I heard some conversations on um earlier this week. And uh it's just, but just like um what came in uh my spirit a while ago, Sunday. Fast Sunday was Easter. Yes. And uh there was a song we sang, it doesn't matter what color you are. That's it. As long as the blood is what? Red. Red. That's it. That's it. Blood is red. One more question, and uh then because I know that we have uh, like I said, we can always get together and have a great conversation. Um, purge. The purge list, how what okay, some people have are listed on the purge list or they have been purged off of the list. So how does that, you know, tell us how how is it that you get purged off of the list?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

And how can you check if you have have well you that that's that's a news we don't purge anyone.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

See, so that's a rumor.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Yeah. Well, but it is you you know, media talk purge, purge, purge. Uh, you might hear a policy say purge them from the list. We don't purge anybody. Okay. You become active or inactive. Okay. If you don't vote, I think it's twice in two years, then we put you on an inactive list. But if you go to the polls, if you want to vote, only thing you do is they make a phone call to the office and they got this thing called connect. Look and connect, okay, boom, boom, boom. It takes three to five minutes or less. They put you and make you can go vote.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Really?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That very day. Just the very same day at that very same time. You it's no such thing as purge. You don't purge anybody. So see We don't fix nothing, we don't purge nobody.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Again. Just have you thinking messing with your mind.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah, yeah. It's a it's a trick of the devil. You know, people, it don't matter, yes, it does. Go go to scvotes.org, check your voting status. You know, you can do that from your home. If you're elder, you don't have a computer, have your grandkids, your kids, neighbors' kids to check it out for you. Go in there and check everything because it is up there. And like I said, they got people in Columbia. That's that's what their job are is to make sure everything is straight, you know, and make sure your vote counts. That's right. Because it does count and it does matter. Um the other thing is, if you're if you're a young person, 17 years old, and you're gonna be 18 by November, election day, November 2nd, you can actually register now. Okay. You can actually register now and you can actually vote now. You can vote in the primary. Okay. You can vote in the primary. A lot of people don't know that. The other thing is, if you're in, you're in jail or in prison or in jail, I should say, uh, um, and you have been convicted of a crime, you can you can still vote. You have to request an absentee ballot, or or you can still vote. They ain't gonna let you out now. But you can vote. You can vote. You have to request an absentee ballot and vote. So we we're working, we're partnering with a lot of different groups in the PD area now, um, so we can they can help us get these people registered.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Great. That's great. That now that's good information. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Because um definitely um we have been led astray with the well I'm I'm gonna say, you know, it's a lot of things out there that people don't know. Um, like I said, I tell people, let people let the let the voter registration office of state tell you no. Don't you tell yourself no. Go sign up. If you say what you already another thing with the guys who be maybe been behind the wall in jail, um, if you have served your time and you're not on probation, right? You can vote. You can vote. Only thing you can vote if you've committed a crime against the elections.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Certain crimes they're not gonna allow you to vote. And that's one of them. Okay. Yeah. But we have pamphlets, we have things you can call there, and we don't know the answer. We have field reps, we have uh area people we can call on and get the answer like this, you know. But so it's it's no excuse. It's no excuse. We need to get up and do better. Right. If you want things to change, you gotta make them change. They're not gonna change by themselves. We have to get engaged. Um, I'm praying that our religious leaders across the board, black, white, united Methodists, I don't care what you are, speak the truth and say, hey, I can't tell you how to vote. Get out, register, and be ready for election day. Don't wait until the day. Because it happened in 2020. This young man came up. Hey, I want to I want to vote. It's about time for the polls to close. I said, Are you registered? No. Uh uh. I was like, Well, you can register, but you won't be able to vote in this election. Oh, okay, jump back in the truck and went off.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

I said, I don't I don't know. People not understand. And we're trying to actually educate people. What does a city councilman do? What is a responsibility? What is a county council's responsibility? What is your your representative? What is your senate? You know, on and on and on. It's simple now on your phone. Google it. You know, you can it's no excuse now. You got all this technology, use it for the good reason to get educated and do what you're supposed to do as a citizen. And my thing, what my thing is, if you don't vote, don't complain. Shut your mouth and take the pain because they're coming. They're coming. You know, the pain's gonna come. These things you ain't gonna like. If you got a representative there, call them and say, hey man, what's what's going on here? You know, why is this that's a you know, talk to them. They're there to re you you hire them to represent you. You elected or appointed them to represent you. So you got you have a right to ask them questions, you know.

What Motivates People To Vote

SPEAKER_03 44:46

And it, you know, I I've always wondered what rolls through my head is what will motivate those who say, well, uh it doesn't matter. Uh they don't my vote doesn't count anyway. What does it take to motivate them to help them to understand that your vote does count?

SPEAKER_00 45:07

And um well, motivation is hard times. I was thinking difficult, hard times. Right now with the way things are it's hard times. Or either, if you think it's easy, go and go to YouTube or any social media and just type in voting rights, civil rights movement, you know, type in women's uh suffrage, just type in those things. And you will see, whoa, wait a minute. Folk look just like me. Females look just like me. You know, poor people look just like me. See, they'll understand one day it's the have and have nots.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

You have it or you don't have it. You don't have it, you you know, me, you care what color you are.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Yeah, yeah. You're in the fourth class. And the Googling, like you said, Googling and then, you know, research. Research, and then some of us have to research for others in order to show them exactly um what took place or what has happened and why it is that you need to vote. Um, even um to the point where I showed it to my boys, the Willie Lich letter.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

I showed that, and they were like, huh, and there's a um on the internet, there's a modern version of it uh to talk, you know, that talks about um how it affects you in this day and age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

The thing is, we have to also get the kids to reenact some of those events through history. Yeah. Once you get the kids involved and they start growing up in that stuff and growing up in the stuff, they'll understand that your power is in your vote. The reason you don't have anything in community is you don't vote. And uh and be honest with you, elect officials look at that. You might go to a precinct and they might have 1800 people on election day. You might have only 100 to 200 people vote. I mean, that's a problem. Yeah, they're looking at you like they don't need nothing over there. They don't even vote, you know. And so, you know, you can say what you want to say. Everything that we do is affected by the vote. Sometimes our judges are pointed by those who we elect. Yes. Um, people over different organizations are appointed by people we elect. So we gotta understand your vote is power. That's the only day that you are on the same page as Oprah and Bill Gates and all those big time folks. That's the only day. They get one vote. Well, they're beating the only thing they got is influence, but they got one vote. Right. One vote. They go to cast that ballot, you know. Hopefully we'll we'll we'll do better. We're trying to encourage the people, and we're working with also with groups like, you know, uh, we've spoken with uh Brother Marcus Simmons, Minister Marcus Simmons, about my brother's keeper. For those people who we look at and say, okay, they don't count, but they do count. Yes, they do. So we want to partner with him. Uh, we've spoken with him once, we got to get back with him. And um to get those people who may not have a home, they still can vote. Because you could any any um governmental building you can use as an address. You can use the voter registration office, use churches. Really? Yes, you can use a lot of things for uh just just sign it and your mail come there. If it's DSS, you can go there, you know. Anything that um any government business a bridge building, you can use it as an address. Let's let them know.

Closing Thanks And Next Steps

SPEAKER_03 48:27

I tell you, you are educating us today. You really are. Uh this has been great, really great. Like I said, we always have a great conversation. So we appreciate you ever so much. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for having me. Stopping by and um come again definitely so we can talk some more.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

We got a lot of stuff coming out of five.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

So yes, yes, yes, especially um when you get your genealogy dates together and um Jamestown and everything. All right, thank you again, and thank you all ever so much to our viewers for watching Native Drums. We'll be back next week with more uh to educate you, um, to be informative, and uh even sometimes we may be entertaining you. So you have a great Sunday evening. This is just Celia Williams with Native Drums.